Better yet, how do I get off the list?

[Claudia]

I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?
Thanks again.

I hope the hyenas haven't already attacked you for sending HTML
to the list. Many who subscribe to the list use mailers that are
NOT html capable. They get very upset when they see it. Most
don't say anything until they see enough of it.
So, be warned.
--
Ralph
Get the latest cracked files! The best ones are very well hidden
at <ftp://2130706433>.
The second millennium A.D. ends in
0 years, 8 months, 11 days, 14 hours, 58 minutes, and 28
seconds.
_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Darrell Daniels]

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?
Thanks again.

No one is going to get ticked off, some people have clients that dont
read html well thats all, I recomend you stay on the list and continue
learning, we are a very easy going group.
Darrell

[Martin Baehr]

Post by Claudia
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off.

you did not tick of anyone!
this is a newbie-list for a reason,
you are allowed to make as many mistakes as you wish.
so please don't be afraid, and come to the installparty.

Post by Claudia
I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible.

please stay on the list, there is no risk of loosing any good will
this list is there exactly for you, so please don't leave.

greetings, martin.

[Claudia]

Post by Darrell Daniels

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?
Thanks again.

No one is going to get ticked off, some people have clients that dont
read html well thats all, I recomend you stay on the list and continue
learning, we are a very easy going group.
Darrell

Your encouragement is much appreciated, Darrell. Rather than
flee, I would of course like to fit in.
What kind of "clients" DO they have that 'will' read HTML?
And what does it matter? HTML is a page of text with browser
instructions. We're doing email which is a.. MIME file... or used to
be. Isn't that still the case?


Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Post by Claudia
Your encouragement is much appreciated, Darrell. Rather than
flee, I would of course like to fit in.
What kind of "clients" DO they have that 'will' read HTML?

uhm. html, being text, the all will ``read'' html, but only the GUI ones
that i know of will ``render'' it (like web based mailer, (hotmail.com
and others) or things like IE or Netscape (browsers with email clients)
i am sure emacs would do it also, but being a newbie list, emacs should
probably not even be mentioned)

those that don't will display all those <bold> and <h1> tags. and if it
was automatically generated HTML complete with <style> tags, the text is
almost, but not quite, totaly unreadable.

Post by Claudia
And what does it matter? HTML is a page of text with browser

not browser, rendering -------^^^^^^^

Post by Claudia
instructions. We're doing email which is a.. MIME file... or used to
be. Isn't that still the case?

good question. the big thing to keep in mind is that email is a text
based forum. that being said, the only thing that should be transfered
via email is text. no rtf's, no .docs, no .html, no nothings.

especially to a list. to a private person expecting it, that's okay (i
suppose)

yes, html is a MIME type, and MIME aware emailers (i can't think of any
that aren't) would be able to fire off the appropriate program to render
whatever attachment may be there.

i know i personally don't have it done automatically, and i 90% of the
time won't bother. this is a personal choice i make, and i am happy with
it.

my advice, if it really really must be in HTML, then post it to the web,
and send the URl to the list, along with a brief description of what it
is.

90% of those cases, i wander over to the site referenced :)

-john

[Ralph Shumaker]

Post by John H. Robinson, IV

Post by Claudia
What kind of "clients" DO they have that 'will' read HTML?

uhm. html, being text, the all will ``read'' html, but only the GUI ones
that i know of will ``render'' it (like web based mailer, (hotmail.com
and others) or things like IE or Netscape (browsers with email clients)
i am sure emacs would do it also, but being a newbie list, emacs should
probably not even be mentioned)

They all may be able to read html just as most of us would be able to read
spanish. It doesn't mean that it will be understandable.


--
Ralph

mailto:***@netzero.com mailto:***@juno.com

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
- Philip K. Dick

The second millennium A.D. ends in
0 years, 8 months, 9 days, 0 hours, 28 minutes, and 15 seconds.



_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

[John Oliver]

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?

You made one very, very minor gaffe. Trust me... you did *not* upset
anyone! :-) Please don't leave on that account.

[Claudia]

Post by John Oliver

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?

You made one very, very minor gaffe. Trust me... you did *not* upset
anyone! :-) Please don't leave on that account.

Thanks. I'd rather not. Especially now that I've found someone
to live up to. Mary reads like what I'd like to become.


Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[John Oliver]

Post by Claudia
Thanks. I'd rather not. Especially now that I've found someone
to live up to. Mary reads like what I'd like to become.

Hang out here long enough, and you'll become an accomplished geek too!
:-) This stuff sorta soaks into you... :-)

[Mike Odegard]

Wait. There is no reason to get of this list.
We are here to help. I, for one, like to help.
Plus, if you came to the Linux Installfest, and I could help there, I would
be glad to do it.
Please don't worry so much about irritating others yet.
Yes, some can be sensitive, but most just like to make suggestions to
optimize use of this list.

Mike Odegard
========================

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?
Thanks again.

I hope the hyenas haven't already attacked you for sending HTML
to the list. Many who subscribe to the list use mailers that are
NOT html capable. They get very upset when they see it. Most
don't say anything until they see enough of it.
So, be warned.
--
Ralph
Get the latest cracked files! The best ones are very well hidden
at <ftp://2130706433>.
The second millennium A.D. ends in
0 years, 8 months, 11 days, 14 hours, 58 minutes, and 28
seconds.
_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Ralph Shumaker]

Post by Mike Odegard
Wait. There is no reason to get of this list.
We are here to help. I, for one, like to help.
Plus, if you came to the Linux Installfest, and I could help there, I would
be glad to do it.
Please don't worry so much about irritating others yet.
Yes, some can be sensitive, but most just like to make suggestions to
optimize use of this list.

You are EVER so kind. Thank you. I realize that your statement was intended
for more than only my self, but I feel like I was a part of that group. I do
like to try to help. And if I can help anyone to be aware of things that may
cause others some level of frustration, I'll do it. I very much like for things
to be smooth when they can be.

I think everyone was kind to me in NOT chastising me for Claudia's request to
leave. I certainly had no idea that my warning was THAT strong. (I was only
trying to whisper just loud enough for all the newbies to just be aware of what
html can do on text only email clients.)


--
Ralph

mailto:***@netzero.com mailto:***@juno.com

I am Pentium III of borg ... evasion is futile ... prepare to be identified

The second millennium A.D. ends in
0 years, 8 months, 10 days, 8 hours, 34 minutes, and 33 seconds.




_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

[Lan Barnes]

Post by Ralph Shumaker

Post by Mike Odegard
Wait. There is no reason to get of this list.
We are here to help. I, for one, like to help.
Plus, if you came to the Linux Installfest, and I could help there, I would
be glad to do it.
Please don't worry so much about irritating others yet.
Yes, some can be sensitive, but most just like to make suggestions to
optimize use of this list.

You are EVER so kind. Thank you. I realize that your statement was intended
for more than only my self, but I feel like I was a part of that group. I do
like to try to help. And if I can help anyone to be aware of things that may
cause others some level of frustration, I'll do it. I very much like for things
to be smooth when they can be.
I think everyone was kind to me in NOT chastising me for Claudia's request to
leave. I certainly had no idea that my warning was THAT strong. (I was only
trying to whisper just loud enough for all the newbies to just be aware of what
html can do on text only email clients.)

Actually, I had thought of mentioning the same thing, and in no
way thought your -- whisper -- was too loud. Instructing people
in netiquette is a valid use for this list.

Lurking newbies, here's a lesson: develop a touch of a thick
skin. If an email makes you choke up or get angry, reread it
seeing if you can place emphasis on different words and change
the meaning.

When I was new I could get offended or hurt far more easily than
I can now. (Of course, I could just be getting senile.)

[Claudia]

Post by Lan Barnes
Actually, I had thought of mentioning the same thing, and in no
way thought your -- whisper -- was too loud. Instructing people
in netiquette is a valid use for this list.
Lurking newbies, here's a lesson: develop a touch of a thick
skin. If an email makes you choke up or get angry, reread it
seeing if you can place emphasis on different words and change
the meaning.

These are two separate issues.

Here's a thick skinned
I'm-not-even-officially-one-of-you-yet-but-willing-to-tell-you-how-this-outf
it-could-be-run, suggestion. I think one of the first things to be posted
for newbies right after "Welcome" is: "Our browsers view differently than
those of most of you who are running Windows. Please set yours to send
"non-styled text. (Cause if we have trouble reading that crap you send
over it realllly ticks us off:-) Thankyouverymuch."

Your
riendly Linux Support Group

Net politeness is one thing, being Linux simple minded is another.

Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Bobby Blain]

you know there is way to much complaining about the form of e-mail sent.
only one statement needed to be sent.

TEXT ONLY PLEASE,

and would you please resent your message.

Bob

[James E. Henderson]

Post by Bobby Blain
you know there is way to much complaining about the form of e-mail sent.
only one statement needed to be sent.
TEXT ONLY PLEASE,
and would you please resent your message.

Some of us do resent your message. You should know better than to shout
;^) . But I think you meant 'resend', didn't you? And perhaps everything
after the second 'sent' should have been in quotes.

--
James E. Henderson
Read "Chosen" at http://WordJames.net/

[Bobby Blain]

I appear to be older then most of you. and all the messages about what
type of e-mail, just reminded of my on children about 15 years ago.
hollering you did to, I did not phase of their lives. But I did find out
that I am not the only one that has netscape to crash. after crashes
what do you do?

Bob

[John Oliver]

Post by Bobby Blain
I appear to be older then most of you. and all the messages about what
type of e-mail, just reminded of my on children about 15 years ago.
hollering you did to, I did not phase of their lives. But I did find out
that I am not the only one that has netscape to crash. after crashes
what do you do?

Kill off any vestige of it (like ld-linux.so.2), start it again, and
wait for the next crash... :-)

[John H. Robinson, IV]

But I did find out that I am not the only one that has netscape to
crash. after crashes what do you do?

1) make sure no netscape vestigies are tunning

$ ps -ax | grep netscape

2) if any are, kill 'em off

$ kill [pid_of_netscape]
$ kill -9 [pid_of_netscape]

the first way is the nice way, the second way is themean way, if
netscape won't play nice

3) remove, if it exists, the netscape lockfile

$ rm .netscape/lock

4) start netscape

$ netscape

5) rinse, and repeat

-john

[Michael O'Keefe]

Post by John H. Robinson, IV

But I did find out that I am not the only one that has netscape to
crash. after crashes what do you do?

1) make sure no netscape vestigies are tunning
$ ps -ax | grep netscape
2) if any are, kill 'em off
$ kill [pid_of_netscape]
$ kill -9 [pid_of_netscape]
the first way is the nice way, the second way is themean way, if
netscape won't play nice
3) remove, if it exists, the netscape lockfile
$ rm .netscape/lock
4) start netscape
$ netscape
5) rinse, and repeat

I don't think step 3 is required in more recent versions of netscape. I think netscape looks at the where the symlink is going, and if it is the local machine, checks to see if that PID still exists, and if it doesn't, blows the lock away itself

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Post by Michael O'Keefe

Post by John H. Robinson, IV
3) remove, if it exists, the netscape lockfile
$ rm .netscape/lock

I don't think step 3 is required in more recent versions of netscape.
I think netscape looks at the where the symlink is going, and if it is
the local machine, checks to see if that PID still exists, and if it
doesn't, blows the lock away itself

that whould be the reasonable thing; and if i were an app writer, that
is what i would do. however, once a problem, always the solve.

(do _you_ trust their regression testing?)

-john

[Bobby Blain]

I will try those things when I learn how. I need a good reference book
for using linux in the command mode so that this dummy can look it up.

I have good news for you bad for me. After I configured the network card
and then try getting on the net my linux machine would crash my wife's
win 95 computer connected to the same hub and cable modem and being I
try it few times. I now have reinstall the network card and cox,s @home
on her machine. I know that it should not happen but it did so therefore
I must have been doing something very wrong. and I have to learn how to
spell.
Bob

[Mike Odegard]

If you are using a hub, did you buy an additional IP address from ***@Home?

If not, then you are trying to use 1 address for 2 computers. You can't do
this be default.
If 2 or more computers have the same address, that conflict could cause
problems with the network, and probably block any network traffic.
You would have to setup a computer or other device to use the 1 address,
then use NAT or IP Masquerading to use private (fake) IP addresses to share
multiple computers on 1 real IP address.

Mike Odegard
===============================

Post by Bobby Blain
I will try those things when I learn how. I need a good reference book
for using linux in the command mode so that this dummy can look it up.
I have good news for you bad for me. After I configured the network card
and then try getting on the net my linux machine would crash my wife's
win 95 computer connected to the same hub and cable modem and being I
on her machine. I know that it should not happen but it did so therefore
I must have been doing something very wrong. and I have to learn how to
spell.
Bob

[Bobby Blain]

I have two ip addresses one for my computer and one for hers.
Bob

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Post by Bobby Blain
I will try those things when I learn how. I need a good reference book
for using linux in the command mode so that this dummy can look it up.

three things: (maybe four) (okay, actually five, but i hate info pages,
so they don't count)
1) man pages. most commands have a man page,
``man [command_name]''
2) /usr/doc/* most packages have an entry in /usr/doc/*
(/usr/share/doc for FHS2.x complaint systems) that contains
good information
3) LDP. the linux documentation project maintains a very good
inventory of HOWTOs and mini-HOWTOs. great reading
/usr/doc/HOWTO/* or http://www.linuxdoc.org/
4) info pages. (its an EMACS offshoot, and is used by the GNU
project. my humble opinion states that any useful info
page has been converted to man format)
5) the bonus! ``find / -name 'README*' -print''
that will return the list of files that start with
README. another good source of info. mind you, that one
will take awhile. you will probably want to save the
results of that one :)
this is quite the last resort. the first three will keep
you busy for a good long time.

Post by Bobby Blain
After I configured the network card and then try getting on the net
my linux machine would crash my wife's win 95 computer connected to
the same hub and cable modem and being I try it few times.

hmm. i understand that some variants of MS get real upset when they see
their IP address used by another system. you say that you have two IP's
from Cox; but are you inadvertently using the same for both?

what is the output from ``winipcfg'' on the Win4.x machine, and what
exact steps are you taking to bring up the network interface on the
GNU/Linux system?

-john

[Bobby Blain]

thank you

The bad part is that the way I learn how to do things is read and do it.
slow but when successful really able to remember howto.
Bob

[Ralph Shumaker]

Post by John H. Robinson, IV
5) the bonus! ``find / -name 'README*' -print''
that will return the list of files that start with
README. another good source of info. mind you, that one
will take awhile. you will probably want to save the
results of that one :)
this is quite the last resort. the first three will keep
you busy for a good long time.

What about how to search the contents of every file?


--
Ralph

mailto:***@netzero.com mailto:***@juno.com

Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
I think so Brain, but who wants to see Snow White and the 7 Samurai?

The second millennium A.D. ends in
0 years, 8 months, 3 days, 22 hours, 27 minutes, and 39 seconds.



_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

[Michael O'Keefe]

Post by Ralph Shumaker

Post by John H. Robinson, IV
5) the bonus! ``find / -name 'README*' -print''
that will return the list of files that start with
README. another good source of info. mind you, that one
will take awhile. you will probably want to save the
results of that one :)
this is quite the last resort. the first three will keep
you busy for a good long time.

What about how to search the contents of every file?

grep REGEXP `find /path -name "match" -print`

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Post by Michael O'Keefe

Post by Ralph Shumaker

Post by John H. Robinson, IV
5) the bonus! ``find / -name 'README*' -print''
that will return the list of files that start with
README. another good source of info. mind you, that one
will take awhile. you will probably want to save the
results of that one :)
this is quite the last resort. the first three will keep
you busy for a good long time.

What about how to search the contents of every file?

grep REGEXP `find /path -name "match" -print`

you _really_ don;t want to do that, but if you did, i would use xargs
instead of expanding the find on the command line

find /path -name "match" -print | xargs grep REGEXP

you are asking for problems, though. not that will return the matched
line (which is bad for object/executable code). if you simply want a
filename, use ``grep -l REGEXP'' instead.

-john

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Post by John H. Robinson, IV

Post by Michael O'Keefe

Post by Ralph Shumaker

Post by John H. Robinson, IV
5) the bonus! ``find / -name 'README*' -print''
that will return the list of files that start with
README. another good source of info. mind you, that one
will take awhile. you will probably want to save the
results of that one :)
this is quite the last resort. the first three will keep
you busy for a good long time.

What about how to search the contents of every file?

grep REGEXP `find /path -name "match" -print`

you _really_ don;t want to do that, but if you did, i would use xargs
instead of expanding the find on the command line
find /path -name "match" -print | xargs grep REGEXP
you are asking for problems, though. not that will return the matched
line (which is bad for object/executable code). if you simply want a
filename, use ``grep -l REGEXP'' instead.

uhm. correction to the correction :)

to look through _every single file on all mounted filesystems_ which is
a _big_ mistake (believe me) you would do something like this: (as root,
to get all the files)

find / -print | xargs grep 'REGEXP'

to limit to regular files (so things like /dev/kmem and /dev/hda aren't
proded through) try

find / -type f -print | xargs grep 'REGEXP'

same note about using -l to list the file names, vice matching lines.

-john

[Chris, the Young One]

On Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 05:05:51PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
! to limit to regular files (so things like /dev/kmem and /dev/hda aren't
! proded through) try
!
! find / -type f -print | xargs grep 'REGEXP'
!
! same note about using -l to list the file names, vice matching lines.

Not good enough if the filenames contain spaces or newlines. If using
GNU find and GNU xargs, use this:

find / -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -l 'REGEXP'

This is handled by my rfind script, which I use regularly.
http://pub.hedgee.com/scripts/bourne/rfind

John H. R.: I know it doesn't work under Solaris. :-) Even if you have
installed GNU find and GNU xargs on Solaris, you still need to change
#!/bin/sh to #!/usr/xpg4/bin/sh (or #!/usr/local/bin/bash)---because
Solaris's sh sucks.

---Chris K.

[Ralph Shumaker]

Post by Chris, the Young One
! to limit to regular files (so things like /dev/kmem and /dev/hda aren't
! proded through) try
!
! find / -type f -print | xargs grep 'REGEXP'
!
! same note about using -l to list the file names, vice matching lines.
Not good enough if the filenames contain spaces or newlines. If using
find / -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -l 'REGEXP'

Ok. Root did 'find / -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -l "arp called for" and
got the following (because my dmesg is still getting hammered with the
message "ARP: arp called for own IP address".):
/usr/src/linux-2.0.36/net/ipv4/arp.c
/usr/src/linux-2.0.36/net/ipv4/arp.c.pre14
grep: /var/spool/mqueue/qfTAA15852: No such file or directory
grep: /var/spool/mqueue/xfTAA15852: No such file or directory
grep: /var/spool/mqueue/dfTAA15852: No such file or directory
/proc/kcore
/proc/kmsg
/root/dmesg

Now, both arp.c and arp.c.pre14 have in their code the very phrase that's
inundating my dmesg. My guess is that these are the source files for some
program. It seems obvious that this program is the one that's deluging
dmesg. But how do I find out why this program is active and how to shut it
off?


--
Ralph

mailto:***@netzero.com mailto:***@juno.com

Didn't we go to different schools together?

The second millennium A.D. ends in
0 years, 7 months, 28 days, 4 hours, 7 minutes, and 5 seconds.




_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

[Mike Odegard]

Does anyone here have a Sound Blaster Live! sound card?
Please reply with the settings in /etc/conf.modules, or /etc/modules.conf
(varies with system).

Redhat Linux 6.2 recognizes the Sound Blaster Live! card, but doesn't have
any extra settings.
Anyway, my sound works fine, but when I play an audio CD, I don't hear any
music.
I know the hardware works, as I dual boot into Win98.

Just not sure of the OSS settings.

Thanks,

Mike Odegard
======================

[Michael O'Keefe]

alias sound emu10k1

I use the SoundBlaster driver from opensource.soundblaster.com

Post by Mike Odegard
Does anyone here have a Sound Blaster Live! sound card?
Please reply with the settings in /etc/conf.modules, or /etc/modules.conf
(varies with system).

[Mike Odegard]

Redhat 6.2 installs the driver correctly and does the alias correctly.
I was just not getting any sound when trying to play audio cd's.

However, when I replaced the cdrom drive, it works fine now.
Since it worked in Win98, but not in Linux, I didn't think it was a hardware
problem.

Anyway, all is great.

Thanks,

Mike Odegard
========================

Post by Michael O'Keefe
alias sound emu10k1
I use the SoundBlaster driver from opensource.soundblaster.com

Post by Mike Odegard
Does anyone here have a Sound Blaster Live! sound card?
Please reply with the settings in /etc/conf.modules, or /etc/modules.conf
(varies with system).

--
I like less more or less less than |Work:[phone] / |
more. UNIX-live it,love it,fork() it |Fax :[phone] /_p_|
My views are MINE ALONE, blah, blah, |Home:[phone] \`O'|
blah, yackety yack - don't come back |Fax :+1 858 _/_\|_,

[Claudia]

Post by Bobby Blain
you know there is way to much complaining about the form of e-mail sent.
only one statement needed to be sent.
TEXT ONLY PLEASE,
and would you please resent your message.
Bob

Coming in through the Microsoft Window, people do not know they
are not sending "Text" only. That is the problem.
Actually, in Windows world TEXT ONLY is being sent. It's Linux
that is seeing more.
It's a mistake to determine the problem is with them when they are
seeing what they want. It is the Linux end that is unhappy. As a User
Group isn't it up to us, you, somebody, to act as a techie teacher?
I guess the question is, is this a common issue?
And if so, how important is it to resolve?
Only you on the other (Linux) end know that answer. (I'm not in
reality up to Linux-newbie status yet.)
If it's common and important, how about posting a one-line
resolution under the newbie signup box on the site?
If it's a minor deal that's uncommon and already gotten more Press
than is worthy of... Let's quit wasting time and fix something Linux, or
break something we can fix, we can learn to fix, we're not sure we will
ever be able to fix-we're just curious about:-)


Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Coming in through the Microsoft Window, people do not know they are
not sending "Text" only. That is the problem.
Actually, in Windows world TEXT ONLY is being sent. It's Linux that
is seeing more.

heh heh heh. some of the non X-GUI based mailers simply don't hide what
is there. it's the same thing, only from a different perspective.

all email is text only, this is true. uuencoding/MIME encoding turn
non-text into text, to make sure that it is all text. (which is why
email is a poor file transfer mechanism)

I guess the question is, is this a common issue? And if so, how
important is it to resolve?

surprisingly, it is not that common of an issue. my guess is that those
that do commonly use html to mail stuff get chastised before they make
it to the kplug-* lists, and stop doing it.

how important? it mildly annoys some people, but i don't think that it
is life threatening. i like the idea of having a little info that tells
people how to turn off HTML sending. that would require someone familiar
with the browsers to explain how to do it.

to that end, i am going to request that everyone that knows how to turn
off HTML sending for the various mailers to email _me_ the instructions,
i'll compile them, and send them to the list maintainer, so he can make
it available to new subscribers.

i have cross-posted this to the main list to ensure widest possible
participation.

-john

[Bobby Blain]

In Netscape its fairly easy to sent text only.
just edit,preference,formating, select text editor to compose message,
select ask me if the message has HTML other wise send plain text.

Claudia is correct. Most of the people using window started at work and
relied on the administrator to keep there windows machine running. Then
they decide buy one for personal use. they go to the store buy the blue
one. They don't read about operating system,networking,data storage,
are know how to write programs. They just use it and when their machine
at home break they find a friend to come over and repair their computer.

Bob

[Claudia]

Does anyone know: If we bring Linux software downloaded to a Zip disk
under Win 98 to the Install Fest tomorrow, can the programs on it be read
and installed by Linux, to Linux?
Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Darrell Daniels]

Post by Claudia
Does anyone know: If we bring Linux software downloaded to a Zip disk
under Win 98 to the Install Fest tomorrow,

I thought the installfest was the 29th? I cant find it on the webpage.
Id imagine if the machine has a zip disk you should be able to mount it,
not sure if mtools works with that or not, my only exp with zip disks is
that they acted just like a floppy, here is a zip drive mini-howto:
http://www.lsl.com/ldp/HOWTO/mini/ZIP-Drive.html
Darrell

[Mike Odegard]

It *is* on the 29th, not tomorrow (22nd).
They shouldn't have removed it from the Web page yet.

Mike Odegard
=====================

Post by Darrell Daniels

Post by Claudia
Does anyone know: If we bring Linux software downloaded to a Zip disk
under Win 98 to the Install Fest tomorrow,

I thought the installfest was the 29th? I cant find it on the webpage.
Id imagine if the machine has a zip disk you should be able to mount it,
not sure if mtools works with that or not, my only exp with zip disks is
http://www.lsl.com/ldp/HOWTO/mini/ZIP-Drive.html
Darrell

[Claudia]

Post by Mike Odegard
It *is* on the 29th, not tomorrow (22nd).

That light just flipped on . Thanks.
Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Claudia]

Aww, geez, Darrell. I already went out in the rain and put the
other system in the car thinking tomorrow was "I" day. Install next week,
huh? Oh well... Thanks for the wake up call.
As for Zip, the short answer is, we ain't got no clue?

Post by Claudia

Post by Claudia
Does anyone know: If we bring Linux software downloaded to a

Zip disk

Post by Claudia
under Win 98 to the Install Fest tomorrow,

I thought the installfest was the 29th? I cant find it on the webpage.
Id imagine if the machine has a zip disk you should be able to mount it,
not sure if mtools works with that or not, my only exp with zip disks is
http://www.lsl.com/ldp/HOWTO/mini/ZIP-Drive.html
Darrell

Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Darrell Daniels]

Claudia wrote:
.

Post by Claudia
As for Zip, the short answer is, we ain't got no clue?

No, Im sure others here have done it, I just never have :) but from the
how-to it looks pretty straight forward, I dont think Ive heard of a
removeable disk setup that didnt work in linux, my only experience was
with an LS-120 and it picked it right up no problem, Ive been waiting
for the ORB drives to catch on before investing in a zip drive, I think
your in there.
Darrell

[Chris, the Young One]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2000 at 08:05:06PM -0700, Darrell Daniels wrote:
! Claudia wrote:
! .
! > As for Zip, the short answer is, we ain't got no clue?
!
! No, Im sure others here have done it, I just never have :)

I have a Zip drive. It works for me. Caveat: if it's DOS-formatted
(== Windows-formatted), then you'll find it in partition 4. Suppose
your Zip drive is at /dev/sda, then you'd use

mount -t vfat /dev/sda4 /mnt
^
the important bit ---+

If you format it in Linux, you don't have to follow that convention
(I use /dev/sda directly), but don't expect the cartridge to work in
Windows after that. :-)

Hope it helps...
---Chris K.

[Mary]

Hi Claudia,
if you're really that eager you could drive up north to the U.C.
Santa Barbara campus. The SBLUG is having their install-fest on
22April, which is tomorrow. Me and keel are going!
:)
just kiddin. I know you'll be having way too much fun learning vi.
-mary

Post by Claudia
Aww, geez, Darrell. I already went out in the rain and put the
other system in the car thinking tomorrow was "I" day. Install next week,
huh? Oh well... Thanks for the wake up call.

[Chris, the Young One]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2000 at 09:25:56PM -0700, Mary wrote:
! just kiddin. I know you'll be having way too much fun learning vi.

Oooh, that just reminded me. KPLUG maintains a document, ``Beginning
Linux'', that describes how to use Linux. It's not been updated in a
while, and is quite incomplete, but could serve as a melting pot of all
the tough questions about using Linux someday.

Am I trying to say something here? Well of course! The document needs
*your* help! (Cue in picture of Uncle Sam pointing an index finger.)

For anyone wondering what that has to do with learning vi, I contributed
the vi section of the document. :-) Suggestions welcome---and please
excuse the incompleteness of the material present.

Thanks,
---Chris K.

[Chris, the Young One]

On Sat, Apr 22, 2000 at 07:21:49PM +1200, Chris, the Young One wrote:
! Oooh, that just reminded me. KPLUG maintains a document, ``Beginning
! Linux'', that describes how to use Linux. It's not been updated in a
! while, and is quite incomplete, but could serve as a melting pot of all
! the tough questions about using Linux someday.

Whoops, it's at http://www.linuxgeek.net/beginners/.

---Chris K.

[Claudia]

If I'd realized there wasn't going to be a Linux event here today
and gotten your message earlier I'd have been on your doorstep. There are
few places on earth as lovely as SB. Maybe next time.
Vi. You're a cruel and unusual devil ma dear:-)
The weekend's saving grace is ghosting a book for a guy who owned
a Cabo San Lucas hotel means that at least part of the time at the computer
will be a no brainer. Vi looks like a mind twister. Think it's a 'got to'
though. The Linux teach said, "If there is one thing I can do that will
help students it is to get you to learn to use a Vi editor." Since he felt
that strongly, it must be important.
Ignore that whining. As I read what you wrote yesterday I
realized how right you are. We do always look for another mountain to
climb. Without one, challenge, what's the point...
Glad you are having some successes now. Congratulations!

Post by Mary
Hi Claudia,
if you're really that eager you could drive up north to the U.C.
Santa Barbara campus. The SBLUG is having their install-fest on
22April, which is tomorrow. Me and keel are going!
:)
just kiddin. I know you'll be having way too much fun learning vi.
-mary

Post by Claudia
Aww, geez, Darrell. I already went out in the rain and put the
other system in the car thinking tomorrow was "I" day. Install next week,
huh? Oh well... Thanks for the wake up call.

Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Darrell Daniels]

Post by Claudia
Vi. You're a cruel and unusual devil ma dear:-)

Here is a handy VI quick referance page to keep with you while you are
learning, I gave this to Joe last year but dont know if he is still
handing it out to the class.
http://dcfonline.sfu.ca/ying/linux/vi/index.html

Check out his other excellent how-tos here:
http://dcfonline.sfu.ca/ying/linux/
Darrell

[Lan Barnes]

Claudia wrote:
-snip-

Post by Claudia
Vi. You're a cruel and unusual devil ma dear:-)
The weekend's saving grace is ghosting a book for a guy who owned
a Cabo San Lucas hotel means that at least part of the time at the computer
will be a no brainer. Vi looks like a mind twister. Think it's a 'got to'
though. The Linux teach said, "If there is one thing I can do that will
help students it is to get you to learn to use a Vi editor." Since he felt
that strongly, it must be important.

Let me say a word in defense of vi. But first let me qualify
myself. I _hated_ vi at first. Had no use for it.

That said, I do recommend getting comfortable with it. It's
super-powerful, fast, and ubiquitous. Even if you decide to
become an emacs person, the day will come when you have nothing
but vi.

Now vi is my Linux editor -- but I _still_ forget it has modes .
. .

[John Wenger]

Post by Lan Barnes
-snip-

Post by Claudia
Vi. You're a cruel and unusual devil ma dear:-)
The weekend's saving grace is ghosting a book for a guy who owned
a Cabo San Lucas hotel means that at least part of the time at the computer
will be a no brainer. Vi looks like a mind twister. Think it's a 'got to'
though. The Linux teach said, "If there is one thing I can do that will
help students it is to get you to learn to use a Vi editor." Since he felt
that strongly, it must be important.

Let me say a word in defense of vi. But first let me qualify
myself. I _hated_ vi at first. Had no use for it.
That said, I do recommend getting comfortable with it. It's
super-powerful, fast, and ubiquitous. Even if you decide to
become an emacs person, the day will come when you have nothing
but vi.

I second this, and I am an emacs guy. Even emacs users
should know a little vi in order to set up their environment
before they install and configure emacs on a machine which
lacks it.

To me, emacs is more natural to learn than vi, since the
basic commands have more natural pnemonics. Perhaps this is
implied by the quotation above: "Vi. You're a cruel and
unusual devil ma dear:-)".

John

[Claudia]

Post by Lan Barnes
Let me say a word in defense of vi. But first let me qualify
myself. I _hated_ vi at first. Had no use for it.
That said, I do recommend getting comfortable with it. It's
super-powerful, fast, and ubiquitous. Even if you decide to
become an emacs person, the day will come when you have nothing
but vi.
Now vi is my Linux editor -- but I _still_ forget it has modes .

"Moods," Lan. Moods.
Typing fast we all miss a key in every once in awhile. It's moods:-)
Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Richard W. Ernst]

Post by Claudia
Does anyone know: If we bring Linux software downloaded to a Zip disk
under Win 98 to the Install Fest tomorrow, can the programs on it be read
and installed by Linux, to Linux?

Assuming this is a parallel port zip drive you want to use under Linux,
it's quite easy.

I'm not absolutely positive of the command syntax, but it should be
close.

First, ensure the printer module isn't loaded with lsmod
If it is, use rmmod to remove it.
Then use insmod ppa to put in the parallel port driver.

Then just mount -t vfat /dev/sda4 /mnt/zip
(you'll have to make the /mnt/zip directory or use another)

Now use it as you would any other directory.

Rich

[Lan Barnes]

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?
Thanks again.

NO! Don't leave -- at least, not over that. You're more than
welcome, and even if someone had chided you, it would have been
in the spirit of correcting, not attacking.

We need you. Newbies are the life blood of any organization (or
in Kplug's case, disorganization ;).

[Ralph Shumaker]

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?
Thanks again.

You may remove yourself if that really is your wish, but please don't do so
for anyone else.

If you offended anyone, they can tell you. If they don't tell you, then it
truly is just their problem. On top of that, I do not KNOW for a fact that
anyone was offended. In fact, I really doubt it. I should not have used the
word offended. Slight frustration is perhaps the most that is felt the first
time a perceived no-no is done anyway.

If no one said anything, don't let it worry you. I apologize if I alarmed you
and I assure you that your alarm may safely be canceled. I meant only
caution, and I may have been a bit hasty even with that.

If I have offended you, I sincerely apologize.

The kplug lists are for anyone who likes Linux, well, actually _any_ Unix
variant, but Linux in particular. The newbie list is for newbies. I am still
a newbie to Linux, though I am hardly a newbie to email.

So, please, I implore you to go ahead and come to the installfest. Besides,
you should know that even if anyone WAS offended somehow (which I'm sure no
one was), they are MUCH more likely to be verbal in email than in person
anyway.

It is greatly desired that newbies come to installfests so that they can
become firmly planted on a Linux system and indoctrinated into the Linux world
of free source software.

If anyone was offended (highly doubtful), they can just lump it. The
installfests are for people who want to learn and would like to have (or need
to have) help doing it. It is not for entrenched begrudging veterans to shew
away those who make even the slightest kind of mistake. In fact, such a
veteran is not needed and (I think I can speak for the list on this) that type
of person, veteran or not, will be shunned.

Installfests is a good experience. Don't let me scare you away. I think my
warning was louder and stronger than I intended. (Really, I was only
whispering, honest!)

Anyway, bottom line: My sentiments are that you don't leave the list and DO
come to the installfest.

How about it?


--
Ralph

mailto:***@netzero.com mailto:***@juno.com

Did you ever notice when you blow in a dog's face he gets mad at you,
but when you take him in a car he sticks his head out the window?

The second millennium A.D. ends in
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_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

[Claudia]

Post by Ralph Shumaker
The kplug lists are for anyone who likes Linux, well, actually _any_ Unix
variant, but Linux in particular. The newbie list is for newbies. I am still
a newbie to Linux, though I am hardly a newbie to email.

Yep. Me too.
Saw your website. We have a lot in common. Except you're
probably more into Sci Fi than me. It was my job to develop the big
Science Fiction site. While doing so I did some short-story fiction
however am basically a comedy-horror (not to be confused with whore:-) writer.

Post by Ralph Shumaker
So, please, I implore you to go ahead and come to the installfest. Besides,
you should know that even if anyone WAS offended somehow (which I'm sure no
one was), they are MUCH more likely to be verbal in email than in person
anyway.

Thank you for the gracious invitation. I was going to show,
looking forward to it.

Post by Ralph Shumaker
It is greatly desired that newbies come to installfests so that they can
become firmly planted on a Linux system and indoctrinated into the Linux world
of free source software.

Gotta little brainwashing session going on there, huh? Cool.

Post by Ralph Shumaker
It is not for entrenched begrudging veterans to shew
away those who make even the slightest kind of mistake.

You did whisper, Ralph. But I know me, I can make really big
mistakes. Bad mistakes.
I ticked on 47,000 people once. What you described in your
whisper is exactly what happened. Except it was thousands times worse. I
got hurt very badly.
It's funny now. A friend-neighbor sent over a free stock offering
that looked like a wonderful opprotunity. I forwarded it to everyone on my
automatic mailer. One of those people belonged to a mailing list which
broadcast it.
Furious people, rabid meaniacs almost shut Flashnet down that
night. The next day AOL threatened to if Flashnet didn't strap me to the
torture rack. I was lucky enough to have a pal who is Lee's (Flashnet
owner) best friend and right hand man, who knew me as a writer, and that I
wasn't techie smart enough to be a spammer.
So when you suggested I might not be making the natives happy I
knew I would be well served to shut up until I got to know people better,
in person.
I love user groups. Headed the Amiga group here in town for four
years. We had no mailing lists. Even as webmaster I never ever quit got
the hang of mailing lists. Some people have a bald spot in their skull, I
have a dumb spot that cannot grasp mailing lists.
There were no intentions of abandoning you guys. Just learning
the rules before asking if I could wade in and play too:-)
I need what you guys know. Unix is sorta like mailing
lists. We're (Linux class) supposed to be getting up to speed with a Vi
editor this Easter vacation week so we can do Linux and Unix. That's gonna
happen soon. Oh yeah.
See you tomorrow. I hope. Will you be there?
Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Lan Barnes]

Claudia wrote:
-snip-

Post by Claudia
I ticked on 47,000 people once. What you described in your
whisper is exactly what happened. Except it was thousands times worse. I
got hurt very badly.

I *LOVE* your story.

Back when I was working in Banyan, we used to have a fun thing.
Banyan tries to resolve email for three days, and the mail will
jump over any connection, like a virus. Sometimes the admins in
our place and in others would send out some chatty message
addressed to *.* -- baby showers, farewell parties, stuff like
that.

When our support group would log in, this stuff would jump to
their system. When they then logged into their other clients,
onwards it would jump. This was in the Balto/Wash area, and we
were all getting invited to pot lucks at the World Bank, the
Justice Department, and god knows what else.

The moral -- always qualify your stars with at least a domain
name. Either that or put out lots of silverware . . .

[Claudia]

The moral -- always qualify your stars with at least a domain name. Either
that or put out lots of silverware . . .

That's a great story, too.
Outside computer city, I've always wanted to produce a line of
fortune cookies with something other than, "You will have a good life."
Can you imagine the face of a diner opening one that says, "Your
romantic interest is cheating on you." Or "Check the hoses on your car,
something could be wrong...."
"Watch your next door neighbor, more than one cat disappeared in
the last community where she lived."
I mean, nobody believes cookies anyway. There could be a 'just
kidding' disclaimer after the "Fortune."
They are such a bore, need life breathed into them. Just once,
one time in life, wouldn't you like to open one that gave you something to
actually think about?
Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[John Oliver]

Post by Claudia

The moral -- always qualify your stars with at least a domain name. Either
that or put out lots of silverware . . .

That's a great story, too.
Outside computer city, I've always wanted to produce a line of
fortune cookies with something other than, "You will have a good life."
Can you imagine the face of a diner opening one that says, "Your
romantic interest is cheating on you." Or "Check the hoses on your car,
something could be wrong...."
"Watch your next door neighbor, more than one cat disappeared in
the last community where she lived."

ROFL! I *love* it!!! :-)

[Ralph Shumaker]

I'm sending this reply privately as I don't see any reason for everyone @kplug.org
to see it. There is nothing in my reply that would benefit anyone there.

Post by Claudia
Saw your website. We have a lot in common. Except you're
probably more into Sci Fi than me. It was my job to develop the big
Science Fiction site. While doing so I did some short-story fiction
however am basically a comedy-horror (not to be confused with whore:-) writer.

LOL! That was too funny! I don't think I confused those two terms since I was
very small.

I don't know what website to which you refer (unless it is the kplug site, and I am
only one of the many members of the group to which it belongs).

I am into SciFi. But I'm not immersed in it, not by any means. I do enjoy it. I
even like Star Trek, even with all the obvious flaws it has that I must overlook
because of how ludicrous they are.

Post by Claudia

Post by Ralph Shumaker
It is greatly desired that newbies come to installfests so that they can
become firmly planted on a Linux system and indoctrinated into the Linux world
of free source software.

Gotta little brainwashing session going on there, huh? Cool.

Oh, fudge! Did I give it away again? Drat! I'm going to have to stop doing
that! ;)

Post by Claudia

Post by Ralph Shumaker
It is not for entrenched begrudging veterans to shew
away those who make even the slightest kind of mistake.

You did whisper, Ralph. But I know me, I can make really big
mistakes. Bad mistakes.
I ticked on 47,000 people once. What you described in your
whisper is exactly what happened. Except it was thousands times worse. I
got hurt very badly.

I believe you. I've managed to tick people off before, but I don't think I've ever
managed to tick them "on". ;)

(Typos can be fun to play with sometimes.)

Post by Claudia
So when you suggested I might not be making the natives happy I
knew I would be well served to shut up until I got to know people better,
in person.

Well, your heart is obviously in the right place. You are NOT unwelcome around
here. There are many who are glad to see you stay. (I've been eavesdropping on
the grapevine, I mean to say, the list.)

Post by Claudia
I love user groups. Headed the Amiga group here in town for four
years. We had no mailing lists. Even as webmaster I never ever quit got
the hang of mailing lists. Some people have a bald spot in their skull, I
have a dumb spot that cannot grasp mailing lists.

I had an Amiga 500. I ought to drag it out and see if I can do anything with it.

Post by Claudia
There were no intentions of abandoning you guys. Just learning
the rules before asking if I could wade in and play too:-)

Well, it seems like you decided to stay in and splash around and have fun. I'm
glad. (I'm especially glad that I didn't scare you off. When I saw that
appearance, my heart sunk. The last thing I want to do is to scare away anyone.)

Post by Claudia
I need what you guys know. Unix is sorta like mailing
lists. We're (Linux class) supposed to be getting up to speed with a Vi
editor this Easter vacation week so we can do Linux and Unix. That's gonna
happen soon. Oh yeah.

What Linux class. I took a Linux class taught by Joe McGerald (sp?). I wanted to
take it again but didn't have the time. But who knows what tomorrow will bring?

Post by Claudia
See you tomorrow. I hope. Will you be there?

If it was this Saturday, then I'm really bummed out. I was fairly certain that it
was supposed to be NEXT Saturday (the 29th). And I DO plan on being there if it is
still on for that day. Otherwise, I reckon I'll have to await the next one.

It really has been a lot of fun interacting with you. I look forward to meeting
you in person (if you can make it on the 29th).


--
Ralph

mailto:***@netzero.com mailto:***@juno.com

Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
Well, I think so Brain but if Jimmy cracks corn and no one cares, why does he keep
doing it?

The second millennium A.D. ends in
0 years, 8 months, 8 days, 21 hours, 22 minutes, and 5 seconds.




_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

[James E. Henderson]

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?

I hope the hyenas haven't already attacked you for sending HTML
to the list. Many who subscribe to the list use mailers that are
NOT html capable. They get very upset when they see it. Most
don't say anything until they see enough of it.
So, be warned.

It is an old argument between the people who believe in CLI and those who
have moved on to GUI. HTML permits formatting impossible on traditional UN*X
systems but some people object to receiving it as plain ASCII text because
HTML is verbose. If you are using Netscape for your messages, you can select
to send text only to the list in your address book. That will satisfy those
described above as "the hyenas".

It is a shame you got caught in the middle of an argument, one of many on
the list that pop up from time to time. It is certainly not your fault and no
reason to leave the list.

--
James E. Henderson
Read "Chosen" at http://WordJames.net/

[Richard W. Ernst]

Post by James E. Henderson

Post by Claudia
I don't really understand the list, Ralph. Granted, reading tech
info has been useful even before getting Linux installed on my own system
however I do not want to show up Saturday to meet people I have somehow
ticked off. I'd like to withdraw for the time being, just for the sake of
preserving any good will possible. How can I remove myself?

I hope the hyenas haven't already attacked you for sending HTML
to the list. Many who subscribe to the list use mailers that are
NOT html capable. They get very upset when they see it. Most
don't say anything until they see enough of it.
So, be warned.

It is an old argument between the people who believe in CLI and those who
have moved on to GUI.

The latter, nonhyenas, are Winfools, I guess.

HTML permits formatting impossible on traditional UN*X

Post by James E. Henderson
systems but some people object to receiving it as plain ASCII text because
HTML is verbose. If you are using Netscape for your messages, you can select
to send text only to the list in your address book. That will satisfy those
described above as "the hyenas".
It is a shame you got caught in the middle of an argument, one of many on
the list that pop up from time to time. It is certainly not your fault and no
reason to leave the list.
--
James E. Henderson
Read "Chosen" at http://WordJames.net/

[Mary]

hi kernel-panic penguins!

I'm on. it's working. my laptop is talking to the big,
wide world! I hope this is fixed permanently. It seems that
the problem was in my /etc/hosts the line for loopback was
missing. Philosphically that's kinda wierd, that a computer
has to be told who it is itself before it can perceive the
outside world. I mean, arent all computers 127.0.0.1 localhost?
Whatever. I'm just glad to be online from linux and no
longer dependent on the NT side of my split personality.

I think this might be thankyou and goodbye. See, I've
finally found a LUG in Santa Barbara. Their website had been
down so I had not found them until today. And their install
fest is tomorrow. So, I'm gonna go with the locals. I'm sure
I'll come back to your list someday soon cause you guys are
talking man pages.

it's just the traffic is too high. now that i'm "up"
I gotta catch up on work. You guys are way more fun to read
than work stuff.

-mary

[Richard W. Ernst]

Congrats!

Post by Mary
hi kernel-panic penguins!
I'm on. it's working. my laptop is talking to the big,
wide world! I hope this is fixed permanently. It seems that
the problem was in my /etc/hosts the line for loopback was
missing. Philosphically that's kinda wierd, that a computer
has to be told who it is itself before it can perceive the
outside world. I mean, arent all computers 127.0.0.1 localhost?
Whatever. I'm just glad to be online from linux and no
longer dependent on the NT side of my split personality.
I think this might be thankyou and goodbye. See, I've
finally found a LUG in Santa Barbara. Their website had been
down so I had not found them until today. And their install
fest is tomorrow. So, I'm gonna go with the locals. I'm sure
I'll come back to your list someday soon cause you guys are
talking man pages.
it's just the traffic is too high. now that i'm "up"
I gotta catch up on work. You guys are way more fun to read
than work stuff.
-mary

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Post by Mary
I'll come back to your list someday soon cause you guys are
talking man pages.

thanks! i take that with pride! :)

Post by Mary
it's just the traffic is too high.

this is high traffic? don't wander to close to the eight-lane
super-highway that is the kplug-list ;)

-john

[Mike Odegard]

This is list is so streamlined compared to some others.

I used to be on the mailing list for the Linux Kernel
development.
At one point when I was on it, it reached 2,000 messages per
day, and then finally settled at about 1,000/day.
I finally got of that list, since I still had a dialup
connection then, and it took a long time to get those messages.

So, for me, these lists are so lean.

Mike Odegard
========================

Post by John H. Robinson, IV

Post by Mary
I'll come back to your list someday soon cause you guys are
talking man pages.

thanks! i take that with pride! :)

Post by Mary
it's just the traffic is too high.

this is high traffic? don't wander to close to the eight-lane
super-highway that is the kplug-list ;)
-john

[Claudia]

Way to go. Big points!
Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[John H. Robinson, IV]

Post by James E. Henderson
It is an old argument between the people who believe in CLI and those who
have moved on to GUI.

what about those of that use a GUI to open up lots of CLI ``windows''?

the best of both worlds!

-john

[James E. Henderson]

Post by James E. Henderson
It is an old argument between the people who believe in CLI and those who
have moved on to GUI.

what about those that use a GUI to open up lots of CLI ``windows''?
the best of both worlds!

I misspoke. When I said "old argument" I should have said "religious
controversy".

Actually, I have been known to use both CLI and GUI. I use Midnight Commander
in a GUI environment, my mouse functions in a CLI environment, I prepare the
XHTML for my Web pages with a text editor, and so on. I like using text
formatting features when I know the people I use them with appreciate them. I am
outside the CLI/GUI controversy and do not belong solidly in either camp, which
causes me to feel free to poke fun at either quite indiscriminately. Likewise, I
am not terribly commited to either the HTML/non-HTML camp but find it difficult
to refrain from spouting off when the bait is trolled past my face.

--
James E. Henderson
Read "Chosen" at http://WordJames.net/

[John Oliver]

Post by James E. Henderson
It is an old argument between the people who believe in CLI and those who
have moved on to GUI. HTML permits formatting impossible on traditional UN*X
systems but some people object to receiving it as plain ASCII text because
HTML is verbose. If you are using Netscape for your messages, you can select
to send text only to the list in your address book. That will satisfy those
described above as "the hyenas".

Tis really isn't an issue of the avant-garde vs. the dinosaurs. At
work, I use pine for my email. HTML formatting simply comes across as
gibberish! And it adds *nothing* to the content of the email... just a
vast increase in size.

And let's try to keep those Subject:s relevant... :-)

[Bonnie Oberster]

Thanks, Darrell...

This is much easier to follow than that cryptic help page that I printed out
from VI this morning. I have been inventorying my machine that I plan to
take to the installfest NEXT Saturday, and I have discovered that it only
has 16 MB of ram in it. Do you remember what happened to that other
ram that I had from my last upgrade. I really need to get this thing ready
by next Saturday...
Bonnie Oberster
Match Book Art Web Design
?
http://www.matchbookart.com
mailto:***@matchbookart.com
?

[Mary Gastil]

It is NOT a case of MS windows=html, linux=non-html.

Linux (at least RH6.1 for example) has no trouble running Netscape4.72
with the Messenger email client. It isnt Linux that makes html a bother.
It is just that many of us prefer to use elm or such, the text-based
email clients (a lot less mousey action).
There are lots of reasons for using a text-based email client but
lack of MS Windows isnt one of em.

-mary

Post by Claudia
for newbies right after "Welcome" is: "Our browsers view differently than
those of most of you who are running Windows. Please set yours to send
"non-styled text. (Cause if we have trouble reading that crap you send
over it realllly ticks us off:-) Thankyouverymuch."
Your
riendly Linux Support Group
Net politeness is one thing, being Linux simple minded is another.
Virtually Yours,
Claudia

[Neil Schneider]

The reason why things may not work without the route for 127.0.0.1, is
that there is some interprocess communication going on using the loopback
device. I found this out the hard way, when setting up some very
restrictive filtering rules for a firewall. If you don't allow loopback to
talk a lot of thing break.

On Fri, 21 Apr 2000, Mary wrote:

M>hi kernel-panic penguins!
M>
M> I'm on. it's working. my laptop is talking to the big,
M>wide world! I hope this is fixed permanently. It seems that
M>the problem was in my /etc/hosts the line for loopback was
M>missing. Philosphically that's kinda wierd, that a computer
M>has to be told who it is itself before it can perceive the
M>outside world. I mean, arent all computers 127.0.0.1 localhost?
M>Whatever. I'm just glad to be online from linux and no
M>longer dependent on the NT side of my split personality.
M>
M> I think this might be thankyou and goodbye. See, I've
M>finally found a LUG in Santa Barbara. Their website had been
M>down so I had not found them until today. And their install
M>fest is tomorrow. So, I'm gonna go with the locals. I'm sure
M>I'll come back to your list someday soon cause you guys are
M>talking man pages.
M>
M> it's just the traffic is too high. now that i'm "up"
M>I gotta catch up on work. You guys are way more fun to read
M>than work stuff.
M>
M>-mary
M>